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      - Hey Dentists (Forefall and Ucross)
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Allustrious's Banner Allustrious
Godsend
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  Date Posted #1 Tuesday, August 02, 2016 08:50:15 PM   

http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/Medical-benefits-of-dental-floss-unproven-9029154.php

discuss plz
 
Realm's Banner Realm
Godsend
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  Date Posted #2 Tuesday, August 02, 2016 09:13:15 PM   

I really want to respond in context, but I'm not a dentist. 
Detrimental
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  Date Posted #3 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 07:02:08 AM   

Primary benefit is that you don't have a stank ass mouth 
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  Date Posted #4 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 09:25:55 AM   

Flossing doesn't really prevent bad breath in any meaningful way.

This is a popular news story being thrown around multiple different sites, possibly suggesting some corporate conspiracy to sell floss. Unfortunately it has little meaning. I believe we also don't have good evidence to show that parachutes save lives, or other things. The lack of good evidence does not mean it does not work, just that we don't have strong evidence.

However, floss is actually not very good. It's really only highly effective at cleaning the contacts between teeth to prevent decay at that specific site. But as far as gum disease is concerned, I typically don't recommend flossing and you should use an interproximal brush. So if you get cavities between your teeth, floss. If you don't, don't worry about it too much.

Most dentists don't understand this, and due to acceptance by governing bodies, dentists usually just generally recommend it without really knowing the why and where of it. 
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  Date Posted #5 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 10:03:19 AM   

...and I feel that the hygienists get a kick out of really pushing the floss in as quickly and forcefully as they can so they can add another hash on their wall of bloody mouths. 
Forefall's Banner Forefall
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  Date Posted #6 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 10:19:41 AM   

Hygienists are not as needed as they are prescribed. Their primary role is to remove calculus and to reinforce oral hygiene habits. They also clean off plaque, stain and polish teeth, all of which are near useless. If you have good oral hygiene and don't form a lot of calculus, you can get away with seeing a hygienists once every 2 years or less. 
Sinn Fein
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  Date Posted #7 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 10:27:07 AM   

Counter point

Brush your teeth, than floss. Now start at one end of the floss and pull your thumb and index finger all the way down to the end of the floss and smell that wonderful shit that is on your fingers.  
Detrimental
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  Date Posted #8 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 10:51:19 AM   

Originally posted by Forefall
Flossing doesn't really prevent bad breath in any meaningful way.

This is a popular news story being thrown around multiple different sites, possibly suggesting some corporate conspiracy to sell floss. Unfortunately it has little meaning. I believe we also don't have good evidence to show that parachutes save lives, or other things. The lack of good evidence does not mean it does not work, just that we don't have strong evidence.

However, floss is actually not very good. It's really only highly effective at cleaning the contacts between teeth to prevent decay at that specific site. But as far as gum disease is concerned, I typically don't recommend flossing and you should use an interproximal brush. So if you get cavities between your teeth, floss. If you don't, don't worry about it too much.

Most dentists don't understand this, and due to acceptance by governing bodies, dentists usually just generally recommend it without really knowing the why and where of it.


Interesting. I have a bit of crowding due to my impacted wisdom tooth, so I need to floss at those points. I notice that there isn't much that comes out after I brush, so I just do it when there's something caught in there or in the parts where my teeth overlap eachother a little bit.

Another question similarly: I've gone to three different dentists about my impacted wisdom teeth. One said it was serious and I needed to have them removed ASAP or they would rot. The other said it was dependent on my discomfort level and said it was my choice basically. The third was concerned about the health of the other teeth, but they were fine and said she'd monitor it on the next visit.

They're horizontally impacted and touching the molars in front of them (not hitting the root, though). What makes sense in this case? It's relatively cheap to do here. I have TMJD, so I'm concerned about having a long procedure worsening that condition. 
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  Date Posted #9 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 11:16:46 AM   

Originally posted by Sinn Fein
Brush your teeth, than floss.

Originally posted by Sinn Fein
than floss


Counter-counter point: Brush your teeth and then floss and wait 4 hours. Floss again. Now start at one end of the floss and pull your thumb and index finger all the way down to the end of the floss and smell that wonderful shit that is on your fingers. Point being, plaque grows readily. The presence of plaque does not produce bad breath (halitosis) typically.
 
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Godsend
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  Date Posted #10 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 11:16:47 AM   

I don't know man, sometimes a lot of junk comes out between my teeth when I floss, even if I try flossing after brushing.

I've gotten really into tongue scraping though. My breath smells like cancer infected with AIDS in the morning.

Anyone use a waterpik? My hygienist said they only recommend it for ppl w/ nasty gumssss 
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  Date Posted #11 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 12:51:12 PM   

Whoever said don't floss or floss doesn't work? 
Allustrious's Banner Allustrious
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  Date Posted #12 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 01:03:55 PM   

Realm did, just not here. 
Forefall's Banner Forefall
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  Date Posted #13 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 01:20:00 PM   

Case by case detri, wouldn't know without an exam and xrays. 
Sinn Fein
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  Date Posted #14 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 01:32:16 PM   

Originally posted by Forefall
Originally posted by Sinn Fein
Brush your teeth, than floss.

Originally posted by Sinn Fein
than floss


Counter-counter point: Brush your teeth and then floss and wait 4 hours. Floss again. Now start at one end of the floss and pull your thumb and index finger all the way down to the end of the floss and smell that wonderful shit that is on your fingers. Point being, plaque grows readily. The presence of plaque does not produce bad breath (halitosis) typically.


Yeah but you are in the pocket of Big Toothbrush so i'm not sure that can be trusted.


Edit: And how does a post about the merits of flossing become the most active discussion in what the last 2 years? 
Allustrious's Banner Allustrious
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  Date Posted #15 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 02:00:03 PM   

lol earth to sinn fein im kind of a big deal if i bring up a topic it sells like hot cakes 
Sinn Fein
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  Date Posted #16 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 02:03:57 PM   

Man times have changed. You used to be that creepy borderline pedo guy who liked to insult asians with me, and now look at you all growed up. 
Allustrious's Banner Allustrious
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  Date Posted #17 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 02:12:28 PM   

i still like those things 
Sinn Fein
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  Date Posted #18 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 02:27:36 PM   

Oh cool wanna hang out and pick up an underage asian prostitute and call her gook repeatedly? It'll be like pre 9/11 all over again. 
Realm's Banner Realm
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  Date Posted #19 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 05:24:48 PM   

Originally posted by Allustrious
Realm did, just not here.


LOL WHAT?! douche! haha 
x-wing-'s Banner x-wing-
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  Date Posted #20 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 05:36:41 PM   

what the fuck
 
Cruel
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Pearson Hardman

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  Date Posted #21 Wednesday, August 03, 2016 08:25:32 PM   

>2016

>not realizing forefall has always been trolling igbl with false dentist advice  
Ucross's Banner Ucross
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  Date Posted #22 Sunday, August 07, 2016 12:38:12 AM   

Summary:

Floss is still better than nothing
Floss is poor at preventing gum disease compared to other aids that clean in between your teeth


 
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Godsend
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  Date Posted #23 Monday, August 08, 2016 03:56:22 PM   

Better mouthwash:

ACT or Listerine Total

Go! 
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  Date Posted #24 Monday, August 08, 2016 06:31:08 PM   

Just be like me, go to the dentist and get your teeth cleaned every 3 months instead of 6 months... 
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The Alliance
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  Date Posted #25 Monday, August 08, 2016 08:09:36 PM   

Mouthwash is almost all fairly useless. They using a lot of advertising to make people think otherwise though.

One study even found those who used mouthwash ended up with worse oral hygiene because they often replaced a good method of cleaning with a mouthwash (which is next to useless).

Use mouthwash for short-term improvement of breath only.  
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  Date Posted #26 Monday, August 08, 2016 08:52:09 PM   

I've been using Therabreath for bad breath for the past year or so. Definitely helps for a period of time after. Doesn't quite have the "preventative" effectiveness it claims to when using the night before in regards to preventing morning breath.

I tried Blis K12 for morning breath too but I stopped because I thought it gave me canker sores. 
Realm's Banner Realm
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  Date Posted #27 Tuesday, August 09, 2016 11:36:28 AM   

Listerine is so harsh it usually ends up killing the inner layer of skin in my mouth (even the non-alcoholic version). It does seem to help prevent plaque build-up so long as I did a good job in brushing it all away prior to use. In other words, I don't get any tartar until additional food goes into my mouth. That doesn't seem to be the case if all I did was brush/floss.

ACT is suggested by my dentist for the fluoride treatment since I have "weak enamel". I just can't imagine that swishing a diluted, liquid form of fluoride in my mouth for 60 seconds is going to really have any effect. 
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  Date Posted #28 Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:56:59 PM   

i got somethin u can swish around in ur mouth 
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  Date Posted #29 Tuesday, August 09, 2016 04:14:04 PM   

Getting your teeth cleaned by a hygienist is pretty useless, whether it's 3 or 6 months, as stated earlier. They are most effective for calculus removal, oral hygiene reinforcement and examination.

Flouride treatment, rinses or toothpastes, are effective. They chemically convert your enamel from hydroxyapatite to a flouroapatite that is highly resistant to cavities. But you only really should be using it if you're at a high risk of decay.

Listerine does not significantly prevent calculus (or as we tell children, tartar) build-up. 
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  Date Posted #30 Tuesday, August 09, 2016 05:35:28 PM   

what about whitening stuff. i heard the toothpaste can b bad for ur teeth because it is abrasive to the enamel.

i like that you are answering these questions even though the time u r taking to do so isn't billable 
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  Date Posted #31 Tuesday, August 09, 2016 09:58:27 PM   

Originally posted by Allustrious
i got somethin u can swish around in ur mouth


will it whiten my teeth? 
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  Date Posted #32 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 09:43:00 AM   

Originally posted by Forefall
Flouride treatment, rinses or toothpastes, are effective. They chemically convert your enamel from hydroxyapatite to a flouroapatite that is highly resistant to cavities.

My dentist recommends I do the flouride at least once a year -- so you're saying that realistically I'd be much better off doing this every visit (6 months for me)?



Originally posted by Forefall
Listerine does not significantly prevent calculus (or as we tell children, tartar) build-up.

Does any particular OTC mouthwash prevent the build-up of calculus?

Aside: I've never previously heard the word "calculus" used when discussing mouth hygeine...only ever tartar or placque. Placque is hardened tartar. So, is there any defined difference between the words, or is it just one of those "more appropriate" words, like penis is the true name of an organ, not "wee willy"?


LOL CRIM! <3 
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  Date Posted #33 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:15:20 PM   

realm is an anti-dentite don't feel obligated 2 answer him 
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  Date Posted #34 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 01:31:00 PM   

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” - Holy Bible: King James Version

Some rinses or toothpastes use pyrophosphate which does reduce calculus formation by like 50%. Keeping your teeth clean regularly or multiple times a day is your best bet though.

Calculus is hardened plaque, specifically mineralized. Tartar is a kid's or layperson's name for calculus. Plaque is a soft accumulation of billions of bacteria.

Whitening toothpastes don't work. They just scrape your teeth to remove stain. Long-term use of these can wear away your enamel. 
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  Date Posted #35 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 02:44:47 PM   

So, I've got those small round tooth brushes, because my dentist or whoever that removed a couple of impacted molars never gave me the go ahead on getting anything to hold the rest of my teeth in place. They are like 100x better than floss from what I understand.

So meh, I dunno, I just wanted to say hi guys :D 
a shot
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  Date Posted #36 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 03:24:41 PM   

I use a waterpik and rarely floss unless im at work and feel something is stuck in my teeth. Love the waterpik for my impacted wisdom teeth. If I get food back there and it sits in them Ill start to get an infection and toothache but keeping it clean with the waterpik and I have no problems whatsoever. Ive also been told to have them removed. Told they will fuck up my teeth as they try to come in, I've been told this since age 20 and im 31 now and have noticed no shift. Also never wore my retainer after getting my braces off and my teeth are straight.

I use an all natural toothpaste and I'd be curious what forefall/ucross thoughts are on that... I use Neem with therape and an activated charcoal tooth/gum powder sprinkled on it.

clicky tooth/gum powder 
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  Date Posted #37 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 03:24:48 PM   

Originally posted by Forefall
Whitening toothpastes don't work. They just scrape your teeth to remove stain. Long-term use of these can wear away your enamel.

So many OTC well-known brands no longer really offer toothpaste that isn't whitening if you're looking for something other than the super no-frills pastes. :'(

Thanks for the info, Forefall/Ucross! 
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  Date Posted #38 Wednesday, August 10, 2016 03:54:39 PM   

brush ur teeth with baking soda and peroxide  
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  Date Posted #39 Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:30:00 AM   

The real entire purpose of toothpaste is to provide a regular dose of flouride for your teeth. It can do other things, like silica helps remove stain, pyrophosphate reduces calculus, various ingredients provide short-term fresh breath, etc. But all of those are not very important. The only thing other than flouride that is of real value in toothpaste is desensitizing agents for people with sensitive teeth. Activated charcoal is just a fad with no real benefit, similar to silica for removing stain.

Flouride is only to prevent cavities. If you don't get cavities toothpaste is typically a waste of time. As an example, I haven't used toothpaste in over a decade.

Waterpiks are good for flushing areas but I don't like them for actual mechanical debridement in-between teeth. For that, an interproximal brush, such as Proxa-brush, is probably the best. Floss is also another poor alternative, but has the added benefit of helping prevent decay where your teeth touch. 
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  Date Posted #40 Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:46:38 AM   

I kinda disagree with Forefall here. Even if you don't get cavities you may sometime in the future and it's easy to use toothpaste so "why not?".

Also, I like the waterpik better than mechanical debridement in-between teeth. Just because I find people tend to use it more effectively. They are both great though, and they are both miles better than floss for gum disease (because the vast majority of people are terrible at using floss effectively).

For caries (cavities) prevention we're not sure which interproximal (in-between your teeth) devices are the best. Diet starts to play a roll with cavities too so that complicates things. 
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  Date Posted #41 Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:48:24 AM   

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

What the hell does burning coals have to do with this?  
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  Date Posted #42 Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:53:07 AM   

everytime i've tried 2 use a waterpik all i do is make a goddamn mess of my bathroom 
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  Date Posted #43 Thursday, August 11, 2016 01:33:07 PM   

When looking at the ingredient and "active ingredient" lists to determine approximate formula information for the various toothpastes, there really isn't a very big difference between a $6-8 tube of toothpaste that lists specialty functions, and a $2 tube from the same brand (assuming equal gel/paste comparison). Our water has flouride additive.

Considering the high regard for the purpose and use of flouride, I guess I'll get the flouride treatment on each visit to my hygeinist...unless I can do them myself? Any OTC solutions for that which would actually be recommended? (I'd imagine consumers can't get access to that level of flouride saturation.) 
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  Date Posted #44 Thursday, August 11, 2016 03:44:17 PM   

Yea, you can't get access to it. Fl- at your check ups is a good idea. OTC would just be use a fluoridated tooth paste. You can get your dentist to write you a Rx for Prevident 5000, which is a prescription strength toothpaste with very high levels of Fl-, but it might be a little overkill for you.

But it all kinda depends on your situation. I had this 82 year old guy that never cleaned his mouth over the last 60 years (literally). We cleaned off mountains of tartar and after everything was said and done his teeth were all in perfect shape. That sort of guy doesn't need tooth paste, or anything else.

There are other people I've seen that have a cavity as the tooth just starts to erupt into the mouth. Those people need frequent cleanings, great oral hygiene instruction, lots of fluoride, etc. etc.

I'm a big proponent of personalized recommendations. 
Ak1
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  Date Posted #45 Saturday, August 13, 2016 08:17:44 PM   

Don't worry about flossing and EXTRA fluoride toothpaste? I must be in bizarro world. 
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  Date Posted #46 Monday, August 15, 2016 10:04:21 AM   

Mouth and stomach health play a large part in your overall health. Some of us actually care about our bodies a little more than simply letting things slide as they are. 
Ak1
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  Date Posted #47 Monday, August 15, 2016 03:45:41 PM   

That comment should be the dictionary example of passive aggressive. You smug fuck.

Shit gets caught in your teeth when you eat if you aren't some vegan faggot. You floss to make sure there is nothing caught in between your teeth, ROTTING away. You don't need to be a dentist to understand this concept...it is called COMMON SENSE. If a dentist ever told me not to floss I'd LOL on my way out the door to another dentist.

Fluoride is a well known poison that makes you dumb as fuck over time and especially while developing. I tell this to my dentist all the time, then when he says that is a conspiracy theory, etc, I tell him if he hadn't drank all that fluoridated water, and given himself all those fluoride treatments he would have been smart enough to be a REAL doctor. 
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  Date Posted #48 Monday, August 15, 2016 05:09:34 PM   

Legit 
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  Date Posted #49 Tuesday, August 16, 2016 02:34:40 AM   

Fl- has been shown to lower IQ in individuals who are developing. It's a small but consistent trend of around 1 IQ point. Most of the studies are Chinese.

However, most societies and governments feel that lowering the rate of dental decay by 50% is worth lowering the average IQ from 98 to 97.

As for floss and food rotting, it's a lot more complicated than that actually. That's the reason a lack of flossing hasn't been associated with higher rates of caries (cavities) in many articles.  
Detrimental
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  Date Posted #50 Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:33:09 AM   

Originally posted by Ucross
Fl- has been shown to lower IQ in individuals who are developing.


heheh, FL- 
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  Date Posted #51 Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:44:45 AM   

Glad I'm not the only one enjoying that. ;) 
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  Date Posted #52 Friday, August 26, 2016 03:54:04 AM   

Your mom used Sea Salt and not Iodised Salt. That's why you are so stupid. Not fluoride. Flouride hurts kids apparently though? wtf.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030123_fluoride_babies.html

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/what-do-iq-tests-test-interview-with-psychologist-w-joel-schneider/

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(08)61009-0/fulltext 
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  Date Posted #53 Friday, August 26, 2016 10:37:06 AM   

Natural News? The Lancet?

Might as well go to QuackAttack and StupidRus to get more information.

That aside the IQ damage is minimal to undetectable in developing brains.

Also, there is a risk of too much fluoride in developing embryos and children causing fluorosis but too much of anything can kill you too (i.e. don't overdose on Fl-). 
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Pearson Hardman

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  Date Posted #54 Sunday, August 28, 2016 10:38:41 PM   



^ look how badass that tiger is


edit - fixed 
Edited by Realm on 8/30/16 10:02 AM
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  Date Posted #55 Monday, August 29, 2016 08:00:51 AM   

That is rather badass. Nice find. 
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Pearson Hardman

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  Date Posted #56 Monday, August 29, 2016 02:18:32 PM   

:)
 
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  Date Posted #57 Monday, August 29, 2016 05:10:37 PM   

Daedalao - nice link on IQ tests. Very informative and well written.

The other links seem like trash.  
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  Date Posted #58 Monday, August 29, 2016 09:04:01 PM   

I was half asleep. ;)

The IQ test was the only one I cared to link, the others were fluff. 
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  Date Posted #59 Sunday, September 04, 2016 05:57:42 PM   

u sux cruel ez 
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  Date Posted #60 Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:51:06 PM   

Uh, dude, the Lancet is probably one of the top 10 scientific/medical journals in the world.

Agree with your point though.